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GW Auctions Forums - View topic - Maximum bids equaling buyout
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Maximum bids equaling buyout 

What to do?
Poll ended at Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:24 pm
Option 1 17%  17%  [ 2 ]
Option 2 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
Option 3 75%  75%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 12

Maximum bids equaling buyout 
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Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Post Maximum bids equaling buyout
Right now, it's possible to place a maximum bid that equals (or exceeds) the buyout of an item. In effect, you can place a bid as low as possible withouth the risk of lossing the item. Should someone come along and decide to bid the 4k buyout, he will loose from the previously placed maximum bid.

Imagine an item with a 1k starting bid and a 4k buyout.
Bidder A places a 1k bid with a 4k maximum bid.
Bidder B comes along and bids the buyout price fo 4k.
The site automatically places a 4k bid on behalf of Bidder A and Bidder A wins the item.

Not everyone agrees on whether this is a problem or not, but there is a couple of things that can be done.

Option 1:
Nothing, leave it as is.

Option 2:
Make it impossible to place a maximum bid that equals or exceeds the buyout. Return an error message explaining what happened. This will not lead to auction stuck with a bid of 1g below the buyout. You can always bid the buyout if the auction hasn't sold yet.

Option 3:
Treat maximum bids equalling or exceeding the buyout as an instant buyout. Add a notice to the confirm bid page. The notice may be ignored though, which could lead to people buying out auctions without realising it.


Discuss it if you want but please refrain from personal attacks.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:24 pm
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Posts: 11
Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I would say if someone is setting the proxy bid on buy-out the proxy bid is buy out -1. is someone bids the buy-out he should have the advantage and respect for not willing to wait and pay max price.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
That may have people believe they're safe while they're no though. If they place the buyout as maximum bid and it automatically is lowered to 1g below it they may not notice it. That could loose them the auction while they might have been willing to bid the buyout immediately.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:54 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Netherlands, Lelystad
Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I feel that saomeone who bids the b/o should win the auction.
So the idea of axiom, that if proxy-bid = Buy-out = buy-out-1g.

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Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:00 pm
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Posts: 11
Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I think that can be solved by sending a message like... Your proxy bid equals b/o and will be lowered by 1g. Consider B/O to be sure to obtain the item.

Makes the proxy bidding more thrilling also...




Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:04 pm
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Posts: 241
Location: Virginia
Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I like Option 4:

Yawg had a good suggestion in the earlier thread. If someone bids the b/o as max price but not current bid, then the b/o is removed. I mentioned in the other thread that the b/o should work similiar to Ebay and be totally separate from the auction process. Either you bid for the item auction style, or you pay the flat price offered.

In my suggestion, I forgot 1 very important aspect of the deal. On Ebay, if a seller sets up an auction with for example $5.99 s/b and a $19.99 buyout, if someone bids on it instead of taking the buyout then the buyout price is erased. The auction converts to highest bidder only with no buyout. This is a risk for the first bidder. He now has the potential to have to pay more than $19.99 to win the item. If you feel that the item is worth $19.99 and will sell for that then it's to your advantage to buy-it-now.

Translated to gwauctions:
Seller lists a Rare Celestial Sword - Req 8 Swordsmanship, perfect stats.
s/b: 10k
b/o: 100k

You are the first potential buyer to spot this sword and you like it. You like it alot. :wub:, but you think 100k is an outrageous price for it. So you bid 10k with a max of 50k. Basically you are gambling that your fellow bidders will also think 100k is outrageous.

At this point the 100k b/o offer is erased. Bidding starts and it is now possible to go over 100k. The 2nd bidder comes along and also falls in love with the sword. :wub: Let's say this buyer has recently seen a similiar sword sell for 200k in Kamadan and he knows the current 10k bid is a bargain. He bids 12k with a max of 150k. The bid is now upped to 5% over 50k with the potential to go well over 100k.

The sword should now close at a bid close to it's true worth. Of course the seller always has the option of closing the auction if it exceeds 100k.

Alternatively you could code the system to only erase b/o if someone bids a max bid >= b/o. Please note, this means a proxy bid >= b/o with a current bid below that. If a buyer takes the b/o price immediately it's sold. Ebay's system erases the buy-it-now price with any bid. And I think that's best. If you erase the b/o only with a hidden max of b/o then that tips off the seller to what the hidden max is.

Bottom line: if you see an item for auction with a b/o that you think is too low, it's to your advantage to bid b/o immediately and don't mess with proxies. If you feel the b/o is too high or above your budget then bid a max lower than b/o and you are gambling that there are no other interested buyers willing to pay more.

With this system the first person to see the auction has the advantage. He can buy it immediately and win the item or he can place a lower current bid and risk competition. He still cannot be "sniped".

If he is sniped then it's his own fault. If I place a 10k s/b and 20k max on an item with a 20k b/o then I'm betting that no one else will want the item and I'll win at 10k. If another bidder comes behind me and bids 30k then it's my own fault for not taking the 20k b/o when I had the chance.

Since there is no option 4 in the poll, I'm going with Option 1. I really really really hate the other 2 solutions. I honestly feel they will create more problems than they will solve.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I don't see why a second bidder should loose the buy-out option because the first wasn't willing to cough it up immediately :huh:

And people will ask "Why was my buyout removed?" or even submit bug reports about it :( I'm not saying the other options aren't flawed because they all have flaws. It just matters which has the least serious flaws.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I have voted for Option #3 simply because I think Option #1 is disliked. We can always revert if it is flawed but the only flaw I can see is that the first Buyer to come along on a cheap item will simply bid b/o and have done with the idea that he/she might have stood a chance of getting it cheaper. Buyers lose out on the option of getting an item cheap but Sellers do not lose anything. :)

Option #2, I think is simply never going to be taken up as First Buyer will simply now bid b/o rather than risk losing the item so it is almost a waste of code and very unlikely to be used - I simply cannot see the point of bidding MAX bid 1g short of b/o and allowing someone else to win the auction by bidding 1g more and even possibly doing that at the very last second of the auction being open! You certainly won't catch me sacrificing the winning of any item for the sake of 1g. ;)

Option #1 is disliked so I accept that it is not working although as far as I am concerned it does what it was designed to do - it prevents sniping. :S

Raven, sorry, but Option #4 you describe may work on very high-end/high-value items but why would anyone want to see b/o disappear on a 3k 5/20 Shield Handle or a 5k Sundering Sword Hilt? Unless people go mad and want to start throwing their GW Gold out of their prams and start to bid for items above original b/o, I just cannot see the benefit unless it was a Polar Bear minipet and a reasonably low b/o for instance. However, to be frank, we don't see that many high-end/high-value items to warrant this becoming a universal Proxy Bid option within GW Auctions - I would suggest? It also defeats the often quoted reason (within the locked thread) for having a b/o - a mechanism for speeding up the sale of an item. As soon as Buyers override the b/o the purpose of b/o is defeated I would have thought . . . unless the argument about the value of having b/o was always spurious?

Bearz


Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:28 pm
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Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
I agree, and if someone does put up a high end item with a low buyout he/she is insane. To put it bluntly, that would suck for the other interested parties but it's the seller stealing from his own pocket (is this an English expression too or just a Dutch one?).

You're also right that option #2 will not cause people to place 2.999k maximum bids on 3k b/o auctions and it would likely cause buyers to immediately bid the b/o. But that's the point of it actually.

The same goes for option #3 but instead of informing you that you can't bid the b/o as maximum bid, it treats it as if you are bidding the buyout. Personally, I think that even if you inform the bidder on the confirm page that they will immediately bid the buyout instead of what they entered, they won't even read the message and suddenly notice they placed the bid when it's too late to cancel. Now this shouldn't be a major problem since they were clearly willing to pay the maximum bid but it may seem unclear.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:33 pm
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Post Re: Maximum bids equaling buyout
Edukashion, edukashion, edukashion!

People will very quickly connect with their mistake if they did not want to bid b/o but, as you say (and I have tried to emphasise too often perhaps?), when one bids MAX Bid = to b/o you are committing to b/o even if you get the item more cheaply under Option #1 (not that anyone has had that joy yet unless Raven manged it with the Lockpicks auction?).

Yep "stealing from one's own pocket (or purse)" is a saying in England! Not that we have any money these days and we are especially short of cash when it is our round!

Bearz


Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:45 pm
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