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GW Auctions Forums - View topic - Shoutbox
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Shoutbox 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 82
Post Shoutbox
I thought it was in the TOC of this site over usage of the shoutbox that you werent allowed to shout about your auctions.

I cant find it.

Its not fair on other sellers to shout about their auctions or individual auctions. Same goes for PC's on items and accidental searches.

for PC's & accidental searches these give opportunity to bypass the auction system and contact the seller/prospective buyer and make a deal negating the auction part of this site. Admittedly accidental searches are going to happen as people dont read the word "shout" before the the type box and on the send button!

This morning I've come on to see people advertising 1g sales while I was asleep.

When people search for the item they will see the better price and bid.... there is no need to have a conversation advertising one sellers tactic drawing attention to it.


Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox


Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
There is a Terms of Service Limitation #5: "You agree not to advertise using this Site."

The choice of taking any action regarding Shouts that are considered advertisements is entirely the choice that is given to Maarten and and any Moderators that he appoints to Staff. What an individual Moderator may deem to be advertisements may not necessarily be advertisement in another person's eyes but, similarly, what we may deem to be a Shout that is of general interest might be considered to be an advert by another person. In all things regarding the use of the website, the Moderators try to be fair and as equitable as we can. ;)

Blatant adverts, for example " Do please bid on my Celestial Sword" will likely disappear as soon as a Moderator sees such a message. Other messages will be retained or expunged entirely on opinion as to whether they constitute a particular message of interest or are tantamount to being adverts in the individual Moderator's opinion.

I chose not to delete the Shouts about the 1g Auctions as they are something that has drawn considerable interest in the past, was something mentioned in Shout recently regarding Bibo's 1g auctions which were very popular at that time and the particular Shouts were not about individual items as I recall but that such unusual auctions were in play. I deemed the Shouts to be in public interest but if they had persisted and become more SPAM-like then my opinion may have altered and the messages disappear - they did not persist, the public interest aspect was kept to and so I deemed them isolated and of no need to delete.

My call, my decision. I am sorry if I get it wrong sometimes but I try my best. ;)


Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
Bearz answer is more nuanced than mine and more correct. We don't always remove every single auction advert. It could happen like Bearz said the advert is of public interest, mostly when it's not advertised by the seller himself but someone says "Whoa, check this, a .... for only .... ô.Ô".

Other times, the comment could have been the start of a large conversation without being blatantly annoying as "selling ....". It's at the staff's discretion, but that's usually a good thing :)


Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
thing is this, bearz a few months back you will remember you made a joke in shoutbox about the amount of alchol i was selling, and while a received message wasnt rude or rather abusive, I did get a message about how unfair it was to other people selling alcohol. So from then on I avoided even mentioning a thing about any auction in the shoutbox, mine or anyone elses.

It also caused a second knock on effect.... a number of people also started putting up alcohol sales, at much much lower (sometimes as little as 10%) of my auction price causing a lot of my sales to run out without selling. I now find it impossible to sell less than a whole stack of alcohol on this site for around a 1/3 of what I used to - if at all. Some of that is down to Zquests and gifts, but not all of it.

The TOS states 'do not advertise' but doesnt constitute advertise what

in my view that statement just means advertising other sites, not auctions, but after being 'told off' by someone else and then to see it blatently go on anyway is a little bit of double standards- even if the person who wasnt happy was not a moderator or admin it was enough damage for me - even if it was polite.

Seems some clarification needs to happen, because as it is the shoutbox is really starting to put me off.

And yes bearz its advertising announcing that you are having a 1g sale. I was about to list 20 minipets I had undedicated and I decided not to bother as I clearly would not 1) get a decent sale price 2)get a sale at all as a number of the ones Ii was about to sell where in said sale. So now there are 20 less auctions than there would have been. I haven't had the real impetus to bother listing any items since other than a half stack of ales and some upgrades which will all go after this message as I am giving them all to a new guild member instead for helping me finish one of my guardian titles. Instead of logging in every day and voting you lucky to see me once in 2 - 3 days now.


Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
To MelheiHaemathet

The bottom line is that it is the Moderators who decide what is or is not advertising in the Shoutbox.

The terminology of Limitation of Service Item #5 is not confined to determining what constitutes advertising, where it may or may not be used and when or what may or may not be advertised as that is a prescription for lawyers to argue - Maarten nor I intend to make this a subjectve decision making process but a realistic decision process for what is best for GW Auctions and the membership/users in all matters.

I very much regret to read that you were a victim of adverse feedback regarding my own personal Shouts regarding your alcohol auctions but I was (a) joking and (b) not seeking to enhance your sales by attracting customers to your particular auctions. It is my view that the person who sent you feedback was being somewhat narrow-minded and, perhaps, it may have been prudent to let myself or Maarten know you had received such feedback? The website terms of Service include prohibition on using the system for sending offensive messages and it is the Terms of Service which provide Maarten and, in particular, myself the rationale for all decisions regarding behaviours and use of the website.

I also regret that feel that you can no longer benefit from using GW Auctions regularly or supporting the website by voting for it. I sincerely hope that this is a decision you will reconsider. :(

I personally believe the Shoutbox to be a useful feature of the website and would very much regret that perceived misuse of the Shoutbox were to be a reason for anyone to no longer use GW Auctions, however, the Shoutbox feature is something that Maarten could remove or amend if he determines that it needs change. That is entirely a matter for him to consider.


Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox


Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:57 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
To MelheiHaemathet

I guess you will have to accept that Maarten and I will continue to determine what or what is not advertising in the Shoutbox. We determine what is an advert by use of reason, experience and practicality not subjective or objective decision process and certainly not legal definition. We are most definitely not going to get advice from a Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856 to determine what is an advert as neither of us are from that side of the Atlantic.

As I wrote before, legal definitions are for lawyers . . . . and Courts of Law not reasonable people who resort to common sense and use that, as and when it when it is appropriate, to do their best for a website based on a Server in Germany, owned by a citizen of Holland and used by people from all over the world - all of whom have different opinions, ideas and behaviours when it comes to using the Shoutbox which is a very small component part of this website.


Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Shoutbox
It will always be the at the staff's discretion in the end, but I do understand your point of view and we could start moderating the shoutbox more thorough. What you do have to understand is that moderating the site is far from an easy job and reading the shoutbox thoroughly would be another one of those little bothers.

I tried to automate filtering advertisements as good as possible but things will always slip trough. And sometimes an item is so interesting you just want to talk about it. Using the comment feature would hardly attract any attention at all, so the shoutbox seems like the most logical alternative. That is something I could work on by adding a link to the auctions with the last 5 comments on the homepage.

Anyway, the problem is that the line between advertising an auction and discussing one is in fact very grey and thin. Anything discussing an item could be seen as advertisement. I agree that it can be problematic. I personally had issues with ArenaNet's naming policy so I know what you're talking about. But that means there is only 1 way to fix it, and that would be allowing no discussion of items in the shoutbox whatsoever. I'm not so sure if that's really best.


Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:55 am
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:20 pm
Posts: 70
Post Re: Shoutbox
don't even get me started on Anet's naming policy...... :angry:

personally i've seen very few if any shouts that i'd consider advertising
i understand where they are coming from in their complaint
but i'm not really sure there is anything that actually needs fixed here since in my opinion i don't see anything that is broken.....


Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:34 pm
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